Moving agency meetings from in-person to online

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.

Chip Griffin: And we’re going to talk about going from in person to Zoom. A really strange concept. Yeah, nobody’s done that. Never.

Gini Dietrich: No.

Chip Griffin: Never. Brand new

Gini Dietrich: concept.

Chip Griffin: So this is a first. I mean, nobody, nobody has ever thought Why don’t I take an in person event and start doing it by Zoom instead? Right? First of all, maybe, maybe we should explain what Zoom is. I’m, I’m sure our, our listeners and viewers are completely unfamiliar with Zoom. It’s a brand new technology.

Brand

Gini Dietrich: new. We haven’t had to use it in the last year at all.

Chip Griffin: No, no, no, well, in all seriousness, it is, it is something that’s been going on a lot over the last year. And I think that zoom is here to stay as much as people talk about zoom fatigue and all that kind of stuff, which we’ve talked about before.

And the fact that I don’t believe in zoom fatigue, it’s meeting fatigue, but. That’s, that’s not today’s topic. Today’s topic is how do you successfully, that’s really the word we left out in the intro. It’s successfully going from in person to zoom because that is happening a lot less frequently. There’s a lot of zoom being used to completely replicate the in person experience where you simply take the same approach that you would do in person, the same schedule and transplanting it over and that’s whether it’s an event or a workshop or a consultation session or whatever.

And the reality is. There are some differences, and I thought, who better to talk about this than Gini Dietrich? Because I know that you have taken your normal two day paid discovery process and moved it to Zoom. So let’s talk about how you did that, shall we?

Gini Dietrich: We have, and We’ve also, which has been interesting, we’ve taken the crisis communications planning process and moved it to zoom.

And what we have discovered is, and, and you may have had, you may have this experience as well speaking. Like I used to do three hour workshops for Vistage and you can’t do three hour workshops on zoom. people just don’t have the attention span for it. So we have looked at all three of those different opportunities in the last year, 13 months, to figure out what works best and Unfortunately, you can’t get it done in one fell swoop.

It has to be done over several weeks. Usually, you know, our two day strategy session used to be 12 hours over two days with, you know, and with a lunch break included in there. And you just, you can’t do, you can’t do that anymore. So we’ve really looked at and we’ve tested different things. We’ve looked at what works and what doesn’t, what we have found most effective is 90 minutes is usually tops and it has to be, there, it has to be.

Really engaging. So like for when I’m speaking, when I would be, when I’m doing a workshop for. vestige members. It’s 90 minutes, but you have to break it into usually 15 or 20 minute increments where you bring in. I love using the breakout session rooms and having facilitators for those. you bring in different activities.

That allow people to be engaged. You ask lots of questions. You do polling. You do surveys. You do all that kind of stuff in between and you break it up into those 15 or 20 minutes segments. That’s really the only way we’ve found that it works in all 3 scenarios. The strategy session. Which we have now taken from two days to several weeks, crisis communications planning and the stitch workshoppy speaking kind of things.

Chip Griffin: Well, let’s let’s break those out and talk about each of them because they’re the things that we both have some experience in over the last year. So let’s let’s talk about the strategy sessions. And so so first, let’s let’s talk about what was your format before? So we we’ve talked. I think many times on this show previously about the fact that it’s two days, but, but you know, was it full two days?

Were there, were there meals involved? You know, how, how did you sort of structure it generally speaking?

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I mean, usually what, what it is is, I mean, before 2020, it was two days of, of planning. And so you have everybody in the room, we would break it out based on leadership. So we would have the executive leadership team for the first two hours.

Then they would quote unquote be excused and then they would come back at the end of the second day in some cases, depending on who the client is, maybe 1 or 2 of the leadership team would stay because they like to be involved. I’ve had several instances where the CEO has wanted to be part of the whole thing and then the rest of that time is usually the marketing team.

The communications team. However, the client is. Has, has their marketing communications and sales department set up, but every somebody from each of those groups would be involved in the rest of it. And we really, we go through, I mean, the first two hours are really about business goals and financials and you know, what they’re trying to achieve both in a, in a year, three years and five years, you know, there, there are often conversations, very private, confidential conversations that I will have.

Just with the CEO about long term goals. Lots of times there’s, a want to sell the business, but the, the CEO may not want the rest of the team to know that, or want the rest of the team to know the timeline. And so I’ll have pretty confident confidential conversations about that. but that just helps us, you know, plan, right.

And then from there we say, okay, let’s break, let’s work with the marketing team and we create a plan. For communication, marketing and communications from there. Then, and then we kind of bring it all together on the second day. And then at the end of the second day, we bring the, the executive team back in and we present it to them and we get their buy in and from there we say, okay, this is how much it’s going to cost.

And because we’ve had all of the conversations is about financials and budgets and all that kind of stuff. We know, you know, that they’re not going to have sticker shock or anything like that. There have been, there’s been one case where we were meeting with the client. And we discovered that they had spent their entire marketing budget but yeah, so we spent the first day working with them to figure out how their team would implement the plan because they couldn’t afford, we knew they couldn’t afford to hire us, so we didn’t, we didn’t even make that an option.

but it allows us to kind of figure that stuff out, in real time. But yeah, I mean, it’s a lot harder to do that now on zoom.

Chip Griffin: A lot harder. So how do you do that on zoom that I mean, obviously, you talked about that, that you can’t do it all in one fell swoop. So it’s not a two day process anymore. But you know, how do you space it out?

I mean, I, you know, my experience has been as someone who did similar kinds of events working or not events, but processes, you know, working with agencies, you know, there are pros and cons to splitting it out over a longer period. Yeah, it does allow some greater thinking and some feedback to take place.

In between them, but the challenge is if you stretch it out too long, then circumstances can end up changing. And so then you’re, you’re playing with a moving target. So, so to me, it seems like you have to spread it out, but still in a relatively compact timeframe.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I would say the other disadvantage is the reason we like the two day strategy session is both because we get into the business really fast, but we also build trust really quickly and, you know, with the executive team.

And when you. When you’re spreading it out like that, or you don’t have a really intense introductory planning session, it doesn’t allow you to, to get that ramp up really fast. so I try to do it in two weeks. So we do a 90 minute session with the executive team, like on a Tuesday and say on a Thursday, we would do another 90 minute session with the marketing team.

Then we’d go back to the next week and we do Tuesday with the marketing team and then Thursday with the executive team. So it’s, it doesn’t end up being as. But I think because it’s more compact, we’re not having, you know, the side conversations and the going to the bathroom or, you know, some people would step out to smoke or, you know, you don’t have that kind of stuff that happens in a, in the two day intensive anyway.

So I think we can still get everything done. and it ends up being six or seven hours over two weeks versus, you know, 12 to 15 hours over two days.

Chip Griffin: Well, I think you make a great point there. You can get through the substance a lot more quickly because you don’t have, you know, all of those sideshow type things.

The downside to me is that you lose the sideshow type things, which is where a lot of the relationship development happens, right? So if you’re, if you’re grabbing a cup of coffee, you’re having lunch, you’re having dinner, You know, those are great opportunities to, to enhance that trust by building just a general relationship where you don’t feel like there’s a set agenda, something you need to focus on.

And so that I think is the piece that you miss the most in virtual. And I honestly, I, you know, looking at large events, small events, I haven’t seen a good way to replicate it. I know a lot of events try these, you know, basically their own version of a virtual happy hour. I don’t think I’ve seen one that’s been truly successful.

I don’t know about you, but I think that’s the piece that’s, that’s a lot harder to develop. virtually that you can do much more easily and quickly. If you’re in person.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I would, I mean, I would even say that we’ve tried to replicate happy hours with our friends and it’s just, it’s just not the same because you have, like we had, we have a friend who put together a whiskey tasting like three weeks ago and there were nine, nine.

Nine of us on the, on zoom. and you just can’t have, it’s, it’s not the same because even though you’re no you there and you’re having fun and all that kind of stuff, but you’re not having the side conversations. Like I would, might be talking to just one person and get really in depth, you know, com have a really in depth conversation versus trying to shout over the whole, and I think that’s, that’s the challenge with zoom is.

You, you almost all have to take turns speaking, right? You can’t, you can’t have the one off side conversations. You can’t have the one on one conversations. And I think you’re right, not being able to do that with, especially with a brand new client, at over dinners, it’s, it’s definitely, you’re definitely missing that trust building for sure.

Chip Griffin: Right. I mean, I also find that there’s, there’s a certain awkwardness to virtual happy hours because it always seems like half the people aren’t actually drinking and it’s not, it’s not because they’re non drinkers. It’s just, you know, for whatever reason, they’re not comfortable doing it on camera or something.

I’m not sure what. And honestly, I’ve been in that place to where I’ve been the one not, which is if we were out in a bar, I would certainly have a drink,

Gini Dietrich: right?

Chip Griffin: Right. But it’s, it seems more natural not to. But then, but then again, But then that creates a weird dynamic. If you’ve got half the group drinking and half the group not, you know, then you’re, I don’t know.

It just, it seems odd to me. and it, it,

Gini Dietrich: well, and sometimes it’s at different times, right? Like, you may do a, well that true. Yes. Of course. You may do a, a happy hour at six o’clock your time, but it’s three o’clock on the West Coast, . Right. , I can’t drink at three o’clock in the afternoon. I mean, I can, but I shouldn’t.

Right,

Chip Griffin: right. But again, if you were in person, that wouldn’t be an issue. Everybody would be at the same time. Correct. Because there’s no metaphysical thing that allows you to have different times in the same restaurant that I’m aware of, at least, although with this discovery about muons or something that I saw the other day, there’s some new laws of physics.

I don’t know. So maybe, maybe it’s possible. And I just don’t realize it. So, but okay, so that’s so that’s sort of how you’ve done, That process. And so, you know, what, what is your expectation as you’re able to get back to in person? Do you plan to move them to in person? Do you plan to continue doing it virtually?

Is it going to depend upon the client? You know, what, what’s your thought process as you look into that? I mean,

Gini Dietrich: right now, I don’t see us going back to in person anytime soon. yeah. Mostly because it’s cost a lot more money, right? They have to fly my team and I to wherever they have to put it. They have to pay for hotels and meals and all that.

And they don’t have to do any of that. if we’re on zoom and, and I feel like. With the exception of some of the disadvantages that we’ve talked about. I don’t think that anybody’s willing to pay, pay a premium for the, to, to get rid of those disadvantages. We get the work done. It works just as well. So, and, and truth be told, I’m not super keen on getting on a plane and doing all that right now.

Anyway, of course I haven’t been vaccinated yet 16 year olds are still waiting.

Chip Griffin: Well, but that’s because you’re pretty close in age to a 16 year old.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, no, it’s not true.

Chip Griffin: I thought maybe that’d get me a few brownie points so that, you know, I, I can, I can, you know, be snarky about something else at some other point.

It was a try. It’s, what can I do? It was a try. All right. So that’s so alright. So that’s one kind of in person to virtual transition. Let’s talk about events more broadly and being a speaker or workshop presenter in that environment and and your experience with that. I mean, I think, you know, the The consultative strategy session type stuff is much more straightforward to migrate.

I think when you start talking about workshops and events, it’s a lot more ragged. I’ve seen some good workshops. I don’t think I’ve seen any good large scale events. I mean, I think almost all of the large scale events that I’ve seen virtually or been part of have been. mediocre at best. Some of them have been just terrible,

Gini Dietrich: right?

Some of them just feel like

Chip Griffin: two day long webinars that you just, you just don’t want a part of. and, and, and people are trying a lot of different things. I just haven’t seen that at the large scale event, anything that’s solved. So let’s, let’s start with workshops and smaller group things first, because I think that’s a little bit more akin to those strategy sessions.

And I think there are more opportunities to get those right.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. So, you know, with a. I, I, I speak for Vistage a lot and it’s a great lead generator for those of you who are interested, it generates a ton of leads. but it used to be that they, they would pay 600 in a speaking fee and then all of your travel.

All of your travel expenses, which is not a lot of money, but I always looked at it as, as new business because it does, it generates a ton of leads, but I was always gone for two days at least. And what I would try to do is if I were in Fort Lauderdale, for instance, I would try to do two or three days of speaking to different groups there.

And that, you know, so I would, I mean, I’d get a big bang for the buck, but now because they’re not paying for travel, they’ve been able to amp up the speaking fee, which is great. And I don’t have to get on a plane, right? It’s. It’s instead of me spending two or three or four days somewhere, I get to spend 90 minutes, of course, preparation, but 90 minutes, and then I’m done and I’m making more money.

So what I’ve certainly, we certainly in the last year have tried different things. And at first, we did try to just say, okay, this is, we’re just, I’ll just do it like I would, if I were in person and it’s three hours and we’ll do have breaks and it just doesn’t, it doesn’t work. so I did one three weeks ago and.

It was phenomenal. So what we did was we said, okay, it’s gonna be 90 minutes. Here’s what we’re gonna, here’s the topic. Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to break it up. And we did it in 20 minutes segments. So, which by the way, it’s really hard to plan a speech though. It’s really hard. So we would do 20 minutes, but then we would have breakout sessions and I had a facilitator for, there were four breakout rooms and I had a facilitator for each of those rooms and they would Talk about the things that we had just discussed and started to craft a plan for their businesses.

So by the end of the 90 minutes, it was about an hour. It was not quite two hours, about an hour and 45 minutes. by the end of that, they had a plan for all. And we had talked about values based marketing. And, and one of the big challenges I think business owners are really thinking about right now is, you know, we, we’re, we keep having these.

It’s instances where we have to talk about our stance on social injustice, or we have to talk about, you know, our stance on George Floyd, or we have to talk about our stance on the Capitol coup or, you know, whatever it happens to be, but we don’t really know how to, to maintain that and how to, to continue to talk about our values.

And so the conversation was about values based marketing. So the. End of it, because we had these breakout sessions and I had a facilitator for each of the rooms, they each had a plan that they could go implement afterwards. And in some cases they were, some of them were like, yeah, I have a marketing team, I’m going to go do it.

And this is great. And in two cases. I had two of them come to me and say, can you help us do this? So it worked really well. you know, and, and like the big, large events, we’re just tweaking and trying and, you know, trying to figure out what works and what keeps people engaged. And, but I will tell you that having somebody sit there for an hour and a half, just while you drone on does not, it does not work.

Chip Griffin: Right. Yeah. I think, I think really the key to those smaller group events is to get that interactivity. In there to have either breakout sessions or just, you know, keep them small to begin with so that you can have, you know, just a few dozen people and everybody can see each other on zoom or something like that.

And it’s it has a lot more of that interactive feeling and a lot less of the the webinar just just talking to the camera. And by the way, even if you’re doing a webinar, put yourself on camera. I mean, there’s, you know, We are all at that point now where we’re used to seeing that. So I’ve seen a couple of webinars in the, in the last few months where people are still just doing the slide with the voice.

No,

Gini Dietrich: right.

Chip Griffin: Stop it. I mean, honestly, a lot of webinars can be done without any slides and just put yourself on the screen, right? Make it that more engaging, personal connection with the audience. And, and I think that, that, you know, that’s key, but now, now we let’s, let’s talk about the larger scale events.

You know, when you’re talking about. You know, like the, the PRSA, icon or things like that, where you’re typically have thousands of attendees and, and a lot of those events have gone to the virtual format. Initially, I think a lot of them really did try to just replicate the same. Let’s take that in person agenda and we’re going to do the exact same thing online, which I think is a miserable failure.

Nobody wants to spend two days sitting there and watching what are effectively. Webinars right for two straight days. And by the way, if you’re doing that, you can’t charge as much,

Gini Dietrich: right? I’ve

Chip Griffin: seen. I’ve seen a lot of event organizers try to charge the same amount for that versus the in person experience.

I’m sorry. I realize that you’re an event revenue organization. Doesn’t work, right? I’m not speaking to PRSA here. I’m speaking generally, right? So, you know, you, you have to be able to do that at a more affordable price for attendees because they’re not going to be willing to do it. You also have to remember that if you’re doing it in a really compact timeframe like that, where it’s just over two days, people are going to get distracted.

Right. If they’re, I mean, first of all, if they’re in the conference hall, they’re probably distracted anyway, right? So I think there’s this misconception that people are fully focused on the speaker. No. I don’t think I’ve been to a conference in the last 15 years where people weren’t on their phones and typing stuff out or had their laptops out or whatever.

People also wander out into the hallways. They come in, they come and they go. And I’ve seen some event organizers who get really, really distracted. Irked that people are not there all the time. Guess what? They’re not there all the time for you in person events either. So

Gini Dietrich: get over

Chip Griffin: it, get over it. But, but so that, I think that the, you know, those events are, they’re doing an okay job of conveying the same information that they conveyed.

The problem is that a lot of people go to events for reasons other than the information being conveyed, right? Most people don’t travel for a two or three day conference solely for the content of the panels, right? They’re going there for the opportunity to interact with their peers, to meet some of these experts, to, to, to see the exhibition hall, frankly, to have a little bit of a trip away, a junket, whatever.

And so, so how do you, you know, if you’re putting on those kind of large scale events, how do you find a way? to sort of meet all, you probably can’t meet all of those needs. Certainly you can’t meet the junk at one. But how do you, how do you meet as many of those needs as possible? I think it’s a real challenge.

And I think we’re likely to see a lot less in the way of large scale events and more, you know, where you say, okay, well look, instead of doing one large annual thing, let’s do a series of smaller things that are more focused, that still allow us to generate the revenue and get the information and the exposure and all that kind of stuff.

But I don’t know what your experience has been with these larger scale events, which I.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think it, I mean, it depends for sure. there have been probably, I’ll go, I’ll go out and say there have been three that I have seen done pretty well. I mean, still not at the level that one would expect, but in the big scheme of things, pretty well.

And I’ve noticed a couple of things that they’ve done. One is that they have asked the speakers and you. As a speaker, you usually have 45 minutes to an hour. They’ve asked you to do no more than 20 minutes. They don’t do them live. You don’t speak live. You do, you record a video and in some cases you record that video two or three times because they want it to make, they want it really, Results driven.

And you like, you can, when I speak, I tell stories. You can’t, you don’t have time to do that. And so, so they you’ll turn in the video and they’ll send it back and say, this is great, this is great. I need you to edit this piece or do this or do this a little bit differently. And so you, you will do that as a speaker several times for the producers that are doing it really well.

They will give you that feedback and help you get it where they want. And it’s no more than 20 minutes. And so when, and then as a, as an attendee. You know, okay, here’s the agenda. I want to see this one, this one, and this one, but I’m only spending 60 minutes of my day because I’m seeing those three speakers and it’s at one, three, and five or whatever happens to be.

So, you know, you’re not, you’re not sitting in front of your computer all day watching webinars. So I think they’ve done that really well. And the other thing that I’ve seen done really well, which I was really skeptical about, but it’s, it’s been done very well is, a virtual, exhibition hall. I’ve seen Legal Marketing Institute or Legal Marketing Association did a really nice job with that.

And what they did is they asked The exhibitors to show up at different times of the day. So you’re going to be here from two to two 15, no more than that. And then they would invite people to come to your quote unquote booth. And because it was only 10 or 15 people, you got to have conversations with them.

And people showed up. It wasn’t like they didn’t show up. and it was done really well. So, I mean, I think there are some things that people. People are getting creative about and it’ll be interesting to see, like, I just saw that Cannes is virtual this year. So we can all go to Cannes this year if we want, but,

Chip Griffin: you know, I think is a silly event anyway, but yeah,

Gini Dietrich: you get to see celebrities.

So,

Chip Griffin: yeah, I don’t know. That doesn’t excite me that much.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Celebrities

Chip Griffin: over the years in my travel.

I just saw a friend of

Gini Dietrich: mine, I just saw a friend of mine posted on, Facebook yesterday. He’s in Boston, that George Clooney and Ben Affleck are there shooting a movie, and he has video of George Clooney just screwing around playing baseball like . Okay. That’s kind of cool. Sure. Yeah. Anyway, so it’ll be interesting to see.

If large scale events go back to in person entirely, or there’ll be a hybrid or I don’t know, I don’t know what to expect.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, I you know, who knows? I mean, I think initially, I expect a, a huge, huge momentum for in person events, because people just have this pent up desire to get out. Right. And so I think that that, you know, that there will be a big push.

But I think, you know, then it sort of starts to be like, okay, You know, first of all, they look at the attendee, the attendance, and it doesn’t meet expectations because I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who are not eager to get back out there. Yeah,

Gini Dietrich: me too. I’m not eager.

Chip Griffin: Both for spending time on the route and because I think there are still a lot of unknowns out there.

Right. you know, to me, I want to balance everything. and I suspect others may as well. But I think there is certainly some pent up energy out there where people just, they want to. To do something. but I think that that there will be a lot more critical judgments about is this really worth, you know, three or four days of my time travel and everything else all in.

Is it worth all of the expense that goes along with it? And I think that that that’s going to put pressure on these events to either up their quality or, you know, find new ways of delivering. and so you know there’s going to have to be some adjustments made. I do agree with you that the, that the exhibition hall type things that are done more in that.

Sort of scheduled. Let’s come together. We’ll talk about what’s going on. is you do it sort of in a small zoom room type thing or something like that. I think those are far more effective that there are a lot of these really, you know, sort of, gimmicky, I think, you know, pass through the exhibit hall and some animated kind of thing on.

I think. you know, the ones that I’ve seen done well are the ones similar to what you’ve described, where it’s like, okay, you know, this vendor will be doing a small group presentation at this time. It’s very short. and there’s that opportunity for interaction, sort of like what happens in in Vegas at CES, you know, if you’ve ever been to CES, you know, typically a lot of the booths have, you know, every 15 minutes they do a presentation.

They just kind of recycle, right? and it’s the same sort of thing, except, you know, it’s not going on constantly, but, you know, you still just decide proactively, I’m going to show up at this time and hear their spiel, ask my questions and figure out if it’s something useful to me,

Gini Dietrich: right?

Chip Griffin: and so much of this is making it as personal as possible for the attendees.

And, you know, one of the things that I’m curious about your take on, I’ve seen a number of events that either say, okay, we’re not. We’re not doing recordings for you at all of these online events, or we’re doing them, but you won’t get them for like 60 days in order to encourage the real time in person participation, right?

and I, I, I, I mean, I, I see the merits of that on the one hand, right? Because, you know, if, if you’re expecting that there’s just a video of it, there’s no motivation to show up on time. Right. So it, it takes, it really does turn it into more of a video series. Right. Than anything else. On the flip side, I think there’s a certain expectation that when it’s a virtual event and you’re paying to attend or something like that, that you’re going to have access.

To videos. Right. And that’s pre pandemic. That was the more typical thing for sure. If there was a virtual event for sure. You got a recording of it For sure, for sure. Sure. Whether it was a webinar or whatever. and so I, I wonder what your take is on that and whether, you know, the, the relative merits of, of forcing someone into an in-person engagement versus, you know, providing them with the recordings.

so just curious what you think.

Gini Dietrich: You know, it’s funny you asked that ’cause I hadn’t really thought about it, but as you’re saying this, We still have provided the recordings pretty close to right after whether or not you attended. I mean, if you registered or paid you, you’re still getting the recordings, whether or not you attended.

I don’t think we’ve had anybody wait.

In fact, I did marketing profs. And I’m fairly certain they, they had the recordings available right after.

Chip Griffin: It’s really something I’ve seen just in the last couple of months, but there have been a few events that I’ve participated in where they had that interesting policy that, that typically that it was a 60 day wait to get the recording.

Gini Dietrich: well, not very well. It could be, they just have to edit and produce. And I don’t know.

Chip Griffin: No, they’ve, they’ve explicitly said that it’s to encourage because they

Gini Dietrich: want you to, because they want

Chip Griffin: you to participate, right? They want you to be part. I can understand that. The real time experience. And so I I get that.

I don’t know. It’s one of those ones where I’m torn on it because I see the value of getting folks to do real time participation and not simply, you know, buy a video series at the same time. You know, I generally come at things from the perspective of, you know, you know, you want to make the customers happy and you really there’s no real point to it other than you know, you want Pushing forward your own motivation as opposed to thinking about theirs.

Right? So I don’t know if it were to do editing or things like that, and it took time. I mean, that’s obviously different. But if it’s if it’s simply to force the real time participation, I guess I would sort of. More be inclined towards the just make the videos available.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I agree with you. I thought yeah

Chip Griffin: I mean because the other thing the other thing I saw is it at least one of these cases They made the videos available like a week later.

Anyway, they just said so so it was it was all sort of a Marketing attempt to get you to show up in person, but they didn’t But then I suspect either because they were just inundated with requests or, or they already planned to do it from the beginning. Who knows? But the recordings came out very quickly.

Gini Dietrich: Interesting. Yeah, I don’t know.

Chip Griffin: In any case, we only make recordings of this show available, at least for now. If you want to ever see us do this live, just let us know and maybe we’ll consider it so you can see all of the goofs and gaffs

Gini Dietrich: and

Chip Griffin: all the stuff that happens. But unfortunately, we’ve reached the limit of the time available for this recording.

So we’re going to have to draw this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast to a close. We’ve been virtual all along. And we’re going to stay that way.

Gini Dietrich: Yes, we are

Chip Griffin: not doing this in person.

Gini Dietrich: No, we’re not.

Chip Griffin: Maybe one day. Anyway, on that note, I’m Chip Griffin

Gini Dietrich: and I’m Gini Dietrich

Chip Griffin: and it depends. for listening to the Agency Leadership Podcast.

You can watch or listen to every episode by visiting agencyleadershippodcast. com or subscribing on your favorite podcast player. We would also love it if you would leave a rating or review at iTunes or wherever you go to find podcasts. Be sure to check out Gini Dietrich at Spinsucks. com and join the Spinsucks community at Spinsucks.

com slash spin dash sucks dash community. You can learn more about me, Chip Griffin at small agency growth. com, where you can also sign up for a free community membership to engage with other agency leaders. The Agency Leadership Podcast is distributed on the FIR podcast network, where you can find lots of other communications oriented podcasts.

Just visit www. firpodcastnetwork. com. We welcome your feedback and suggestions and look forward to being back with you again next week.